Private Power Projects:

Minister Barry Penner joins Sean Leslie
CKNW Radio
February 2, 2008

Sean Leslie: "Earlier, you heard from NDP energy critic John Horgan talking about what he says is the unnecessary move to make B.C. energy self-sufficient. He says it’s unnecessarily raising costs for BC Hydro customers. We’re all going to get whacked in the pocketbook and also there are rallies across B.C. today on a related issue, protesting what they’re calling the selling off of B.C. rivers, the private power producers, which will mean further increases in BC Hydro rates.

Barry Penner is B.C.’s Minister of Environment and he joins us now. Barry, how are you doing today? 

Barry Penner: "Pretty good, Sean. How are you?"

Sean Leslie: "Excellent. Last I heard, I think you had something happening with your car. Has everything worked out on that front?"

Barry Penner: "I think we’ve got that resolved. That kind of put a bullet through my weekend last week and I’ve just interrupted some outdoor activity now to come and speak to you. I understand that you had MLA Horgan on earlier and we’re hearing the usual NDP claptrap, which simply doesn’t make any sense.

On the one hand, you know, they try to portray themselves to environmentalists as being concerned about climate change, yet MLA Horgan’s position seems to be that we should continue to use B.C. dollars to purchase coal-fired electricity from outside of our boundaries, rather than build clean, green renewable projects here in B.C., which can put people to work here as well.

Our government has a much different view on things than the NDP, obviously. We would like B.C. to be self-sufficient again in electricity. We don’t think it’s good enough to continue to rely on up to 12% to 15% of our domestic needs coming from power plants in Alberta or in the United States. And we want to reinvest those dollars, instead of shipping them elsewhere, into projects here in B.C."

Sean Leslie: "Now I know you’re kind of pinch hitting for Richard Neufeld, the energy minister, so some of this won’t be your specific file, Barry, but I do have to ask you: What is going to be the impact? And this is what people are getting concerned about now. We’re hearing about all these potential huge hydro rate hikes, maybe even as much as $500 extra dollars per year. What do you have to say to the consumers of B.C., the electricity buyers in B.C., about where rates are going as a result of your government’s environmental agenda?"

Barry Penner: "Well, the figure you just referred to is completely out of whack with anything that BC Hydro is talking about doing and I’ll defer to them for the specifics, but I think what they were talking about is a possible increase that could amount to $5 a month, which is a lot less than $500 a year. But I’ll leave it to them to explain. They’ll have to go to the BC Utilities Commission, which is an independent body, to review any rate hike proposals.

But it seems to be the NDP’s position that if we can somehow get cheaper, dirtier coal-fired power, that’s very intense in terms of greenhouse gas emissions, we should do that even if it means that we’re insecure in terms of our own self-sufficiency.

I’d liken it to this: They say we should buy on the spot market on a long-term basis in the United States. It’s like having a floating mortgage. How many people are comfortable in the long-term just relying on the floating rate, rather than locking it in for 1, 2, 3 or 5 years like I do? I prefer to take a long-term rate because I don’t want to have to worry at night about what’s happening and when I wake up in the morning in terms of interest rates. The same thing applies to electricity prices. If we continue to rely on the United States for our electricity sources, you know what’s going to happen when they have a crunch; they’ll look after themselves first. And I have a great relationship with legislators south of the border but frankly they spend most of their time thinking about their own constituents, not us. It’s up to us to look after our own self-sufficiency and that’s what our energy plan calls for.

So there’s a very clear distinction between the BC Liberals and the NDP. We think we should be self-sufficient in electricity with green-powered sources. They would prefer us to continue to import coal-fired electricity."

Sean Leslie: "What do you say to people at these rallies today, Barry Penner, who are accusing you essentially of selling off B.C.’s rivers to private power producers? Shane Simpson, the NDP’s environment critic, says upwards of 500 B.C. rivers will be potentially lost to British Columbians as they’re essentially being given away in perpetuity to private interests for a few thousand dollars?"

Barry Penner: "Even by NDP standards, that portrays a surprising amount of ignorance, if they don't know the difference between ownership and renting. It’s similar to if you’re renting an apartment, when at the end of the contract or the term or your lease, you don’t own that building. Similarly, if you’re—if you have water license and you have a Crown land lease to have a project on Crown land in B.C., at the end of that term you don’t own that land, you don’t own the water. You have a licence, which has conditions on it, which allows you to use it for a set period of time, but the B.C. government and the public of British Columbia remain the owners of the resources. We allow people to use it, based on certain conditions, like paying taxes and millions of dollars over the life of the project in water rental fees, which help pay for healthcare and education and all the things we need, but they don’t own the water or the land. They’re merely getting a chance to use it for a period of time and they pay us rent in effect to do that."

Sean Leslie: "Barry, we’ve got to leave it there. I’m just completely out of time. Thanks, as always, for talking to us."

Barry Penner: "I appreciate you taking the call."

Sean Leslie: Barry Penner, B.C.’s Minister of Environment